[TYPES] R: ETAPS bars Russian researchers from attending

[Max New]

ETAPS has rescinded this policy as of today. The statement on the website
is as follows now:

The ETAPS association strongly condemns the war against Ukraine launched by
President Putin. It is an intolerable breach of international law and a
crime against humanity, unfolding in Europe now.

For more information, please refer to the Statement
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dfg.de/download/pdf/dfg_im_profil/allianz/220225_statement_allianz_ukraine_en.pdf__;!!IBzWLUs!GF_xWv2PRKKGBCqOVvrk40UMyCSSYcDuNZwJcMxEuQII6qdOQuQVaDTSEizhINMxniuAVMyPFa8$ >
of Alliance of Science Organisations in Germany
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dfg.de/en/index.jsp__;!!IBzWLUs!GF_xWv2PRKKGBCqOVvrk40UMyCSSYcDuNZwJcMxEuQII6qdOQuQVaDTSEizhINMxniuALVr5u58$ >.

-Max Stewart New


On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 9:05 AM Sergiy Bogomolov <bogom.s at gmail.com> wrote:

> [ The Types Forum, http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list
> ]
>
> > Banning scientists from ETAPS won't do anything to bring the end of war
> a step closer.
> > Banning Netflix, McDonalds, Visa, Mastercard, etc., etc., from Russia,
> and ceasing to purchase fossil fuels from Russia might. Banning scientific
> conferences won't have any impact.
>
> Alastair: Thanks for your comment. I am afraid I don't really agree
> with this statement.
>
> At this stage, the whole essence of large-scale sanctions is to
> inflict pain on the Russian population, with the aim to reduce their
> support of the Putin regime.
>
> In this context, the larger part of the population is targeted, the
> more impact sanctions are going to have.
>
> Russian researchers are part of the whole population and one of the
> ways to hit them is to prohibit their participation in international
> conferences.
>
> In other words, I see the step of ETAPS organisers -- similar to
> banning Netflix, etc. -- as yet another tool to target a particular
> demographic, which the West should deploy to stop the war.
>
> I hope this makes sense.
>
> Thanks, Sergiy
>
>
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Ally
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Types-list <types-list-bounces at LISTS.SEAS.UPENN.EDU> on behalf of
> Sergiy Bogomolov <bogom.s at gmail.com>
> > Sent: 09 March 2022 10:43
> > To: types <types-list at lists.seas.upenn.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [TYPES] R: ETAPS bars Russian researchers from attending
> >
> > [ The Types Forum,
> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list ]
> >
> > Let me start by saying that I strongly support the ETAPS decision to
> > ban the participation of Russian affiliated scientists at the
> > conference.
> >
> > The rationale is the as follows:
> >
> > *  The ongoing war in Ukraine is at least partially due to the weak
> > response of the Western countries to the Russian invasion of Ukraine
> > in 2014 and Georgia in 2008. In fact, the Western countries introduced
> > very targeted sanctions which, e.g., banned some Russian officials
> > from entering the US (which they did not care about anyway). At the
> > same time -- exactly in line with the arguments proposed by the folks
> > who want to overturn the decision of ETAPS organisers -- the broad
> > Russian population did not bear the burden of the sanctions. Have
> > these sanctions helped? No, they have not. In fact, these only
> > reassured the Russian regime that the West is "weak" and they can go
> > ahead with a fully-fledged war in Ukraine without fearing any
> > implications. In other words, all the efforts to change the course of
> > actions of the Russian government without negatively impacting the
> > Russian population have failed.
> >
> > * At the same time, upon the commencement of the war in Ukraine, the
> > Western governments seem to have learnt the lesson and have devised
> > the sanction regime which should hurt the Russian population as a
> > whole and make them finally give some thoughts about the decisions of
> > their government and the fact  that these might be in fact
> > counterproductive to their prosperity. This is an unfortunate reality
> > that the West has to resolve to this kind of approach, but I believe
> > there are only a limited number of ways to stop the war without ending
> > up in a direct military confrontation between the West and Russia.
> >
> > * To everybody who suggests overturning the decision of ETAPS
> > organisers I suggest the following thought experiment. Imagine you go
> > to bed without knowing you are going to be alive in the morning (as
> > Russian army pursues indiscriminate bombing of residential areas;
> > including the city of Kharkiv where I grew up). Imagine getting up in
> > the morning and calling your relatives to check out whether they are
> > still alive. If you were in such a situation, would you still be
> > willing to allow the Russian affiliated scientists to participate in
> > the conference? This is the reality myself and all the Ukrainians are
> > living through. Now, consider whether prohibiting the participation of
> > Russian affiliated scientists -- who did not participate at ETAPS en
> > masse anyway -- which could bring the end of war a step closer
> > outweighs the arguments to let the Russian affiliated scientists
> > participate in the conference.
> >
> > Thanks, Sergiy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 at 09:50, Alejandro Díaz-Caro
> > <alejandro at diaz-caro.info> wrote:
> > >
> > > [ The Types Forum,
> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list ]
> > >
> > > Dear Marino, dear all,
> > >
> > > El mié, 9 mar. 2022 05:05, Marino Miculan <marino.miculan at uniud.it>
> > > escribió:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Of course, I am sure that there are many colleagues there against the
> > > > invasion. But then, we have to distinguish between the
> responsibility of
> > > > the single, and that of the institution.  For instance, I would have
> no
> > > > problems if a researcher from a Russian university  registers and
> presents
> > > > their results at ETAPS (or any other conference) without any
> affiliation.
> > > > That would be already a strong signal, as in "I'm here on my own,
> and I
> > > > dissociate from my rector's opinions".
> > > >
> > >
> > > That would be even worst than the decision of banning a country by
> their
> > > war politics. What you are proposing there is to ask the researchers
> about
> > > their political personal opinion in order to be admitted to a
> conference. I
> > > find this completely wrong.
> > >
> > > Shall we also inquire Cubans if they support Fidel Castro or Americans
> if
> > > they support the blockade? Shall we ask Israel or Palestinians what
> side of
> > > the conflict they support, and let them register according to the
> personal
> > > stand of the organisers at the venue?
> > >
> > > I think that mixing politics with the scientific community at this
> global
> > > level is very dangerous and ultimately wrong.
> > >
> > > I hope this line of actions do not prosper, or we will damage the
> > > scientific community for many years.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Alejandro
> > >
> > > >
>