[TYPES] Could we temporarily stop having conferences in the US?

[Derek Dreyer]

Thanks for the lively discussion about this issue.  However, I'm afraid I
must disagree with the opinions posted so far that advocated for
(temporarily) abandoning conferences in the US.

Of course, many people in our community are understandably upset because of
the actions of the Trump administration and its effect on immigration and
research.  I, too, am very upset about it (to put it mildly).

But it seems to me there are multiple different issues being conflated in
Gabriel's original post, and the proposed cure is worse than the disease.
In particular, he wrote: "It is pretty clear that the US are not a safe
place for universities right now, and also unpalatable-to-unsafe for people
(especially foreigners) working in universities."

Concerning the point that the US is not a safe place for universities: I am
not exactly sure what he meant, but I assume he meant that universities are
suffering under the major funding cuts and generally threatening behavior
of the Trump administration.  This is certainly true.  However, it is not
clear to me how holding an academic conference outside the US for a couple
years will sway Trump to do something different.  Furthermore, when
considering other conference locations, I do not recall it ever having been
a priority to select locations based on whether the local government was
particularly supportive of science.  Even in its diminished state, the US
government will still be a major contributor to global research funding.

Concerning the point that the US is "unpalatable-to-unsafe for people
(especially foreigners) working in universities", I again am not completely
sure what this is referring to.  If this is referring to non-US citizens
working in universities in the US, who might have their visas revoked on
whatever proclamation Trump thinks up tomorrow, yes, this is really bad.
But as has already been noted by Julia and others, it is *much* easier for
those people to attend conferences in the US than elsewhere.  If on the
other hand this is referring to people travelling to the US for the
conference, I heard a few horror stories earlier this year, but I have not
seen evidence that there is widespread harassment of academics entering the
US for a conference.  So I think the chance of encountering a problem is
very low.  But I agree that this is a valid cause for concern, and I can
understand if people are hesitant to travel to the US because of it.

Others on the thread have suggested improving our virtual conference
participation options so that US researchers can participate even if the
event is held elsewhere.  I am all for improving virtual conference
participation, but we had several years of experimentation with that during
the pandemic, and in the end the verdict seemed to be that it didn't really
work.  At least it is not a replacement for in-person participation.  But I
think if people are motivated enough, and enough people do not want to
travel to the US for conferences, then it would be a great idea to
experiment with satellite meetings, also for climate reasons.

In summary, given that a very significant portion of our community includes
people working at US universities, I think that we should not abandon
conferences in the US entirely.  We could, however, consider reducing the
frequency with which conferences are located in the US (e.g. to no more
than 1/2 or some smaller fraction of the time), as well as exploring
complementary options like satellite meetings.

Best wishes,
Derek

P.S. In response to Artem's question, I would not consider the discussion
on this list to necessarily be representative of the "stance" of the PL
community on this issue.  It may be worth gauging the stance of the
research community, but that may be best done with post-conference surveys
at some upcoming SIGPLAN conferences.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2025 at 5:17 PM Artem Shinkarov <tema at pm.me> wrote:

> [ The Types Forum, http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list 
> ]
>
> Hi
>
> It appears that the argument regarding being "trapped in" is diverting the
> discussion from the intent of the original post: the toxic attitude of the
> US towards research and researchers, which requires action from the
> research community. Ban on conferences in the US could serve as a
> meaningful statement or gesture that we ought to consider.
>
> The issue of being "trapped in" is indeed one of the drawbacks highlighted
> in the original post. However, this situation is not unique to the US;
> similar challenges arise in other countries as well. For instance,
> individuals on visas in the UK may find themselves unable to travel to
> Europe, the US, and beyond. As noted in previous discussions, we can
> address this issue by ensuring adequate online participation and exploring
> the possibility of satellite events. Nevertheless, the crucial question
> remains: is the research community prepared to express its stance on this
> matter, and what is the most effective way to do so?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Artem
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 23rd, 2025 at 1:36 PM, Niki Vazou <
> nikivazou at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > [ The Types Forum,
> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list   ]
> >
> > Hey,
> >
> > I also agree that moving is getting more complicated (both for the
> > geopolitical events and the environment...)
> > So, maybe a good alternative would be, in parallel to the main event, to
> > have satellite events. For example, when a conference happens in USA, to
> > have participants gather in another country to attend/participate.
> >
> > Best,
> > Niki
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 5:35 PM Julia Belyakova julbinb at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > [ The Types Forum,
> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list 
> > > ]
> > >
> > > I don't disagree that the US is not a welcome destination for many
> people
> > > right now.
> > >
> > > I did want to point out the existence of the trapped-in-the-US
> > > international community because in my experience, a lot of people,
> > > understandably, are not aware of this phenomenon.
> > >
> > > In general, there are many reasons why an individual cannot travel to a
> > > particular location, be it the US or another country.
> > >
> > > To be constructive, I would like to amplify an alternative suggestion
> > > discussed in Zulip, which is to have an explicit policy for presenting
> the
> > > paper at a different conference that is held in a more suitable
> location
> > > for the author. Similar to what SIGPLAN-track has been doing at SPLASH.
> > >
> > > Of course, it would require more coordination across the conferences
> and an
> > > additional logistics burden on organizers.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kind regards, Julia
> > >
> > >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://julbinb.github.io/__;!!IBzWLUs!WAX7xyBsdZT3oMFK0lm5dFmak5nvWszH_Tt-tl_8MyRugaEYzh3Sm-WminTMTReV3LLNlPUOJIjBk-3FDMWtDsPMfds$
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 12:27 AM Sanjiva Prasad sanjiva at cse.iitd.ac.in
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > So ia=s my son (for INS reasons) -- could not attend ECOOP or CAV
> this
> > > > year where he had best papers.
> > > >
> > > > But computer science is not a US monopoly (not even in ACM now,
> though
> > > > registered in the US).
> > > > It costs Indians and Chinese and some others USD250 over the visa
> costs
> > > > just to enter the US.
> > > > Am not saying that getting into Europe or India is easier, but US is
> not
> > > > a welcome destination for many right now.
> > > >
> > > > On 22/09/25 04:18, Julia Belyakova wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > [ The Types Forum,
> > > > > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list   ]
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand this position but just want to remind that there are
> many
> > > > > international students and professionals in the community who are
> stuck
> > > > > inside the US and cannot cross the border, even to go Canada.
> > > > >
> > > > > I, for one, have been stuck in the US since 2020.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sanjiva Prasad
> > > > Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> > > > Indian Institute of Technology Delhi (IIT Delhi)
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Niki Vazou
>