[TYPES] Could we temporarily stop having conferences in the US?

[Peter Sewell]

Straightforwardly actionable, and I think a no-brainer: we can ensure that
remote participation is (imperfect though it is) uniformly available.

Not completely straightforward logistically, but I imagine doable: we could
allow authors to freely vire paper presentations among the SIGPLAN
conferences, and ensure that those are geographically distributed.  There'd
be some hit to the the character and critical-mass-of-related-people, but
that might well be worthwhile.

Peter


On Tue, 23 Sept 2025 at 17:10, Derek Dreyer <dreyer at mpi-sws.org> wrote:

> [ The Types Forum, http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list 
> ]
>
> Thanks for the lively discussion about this issue.  However, I'm afraid I
> must disagree with the opinions posted so far that advocated for
> (temporarily) abandoning conferences in the US.
>
> Of course, many people in our community are understandably upset because of
> the actions of the Trump administration and its effect on immigration and
> research.  I, too, am very upset about it (to put it mildly).
>
> But it seems to me there are multiple different issues being conflated in
> Gabriel's original post, and the proposed cure is worse than the disease.
> In particular, he wrote: "It is pretty clear that the US are not a safe
> place for universities right now, and also unpalatable-to-unsafe for people
> (especially foreigners) working in universities."
>
> Concerning the point that the US is not a safe place for universities: I am
> not exactly sure what he meant, but I assume he meant that universities are
> suffering under the major funding cuts and generally threatening behavior
> of the Trump administration.  This is certainly true.  However, it is not
> clear to me how holding an academic conference outside the US for a couple
> years will sway Trump to do something different.  Furthermore, when
> considering other conference locations, I do not recall it ever having been
> a priority to select locations based on whether the local government was
> particularly supportive of science.  Even in its diminished state, the US
> government will still be a major contributor to global research funding.
>
> Concerning the point that the US is "unpalatable-to-unsafe for people
> (especially foreigners) working in universities", I again am not completely
> sure what this is referring to.  If this is referring to non-US citizens
> working in universities in the US, who might have their visas revoked on
> whatever proclamation Trump thinks up tomorrow, yes, this is really bad.
> But as has already been noted by Julia and others, it is *much* easier for
> those people to attend conferences in the US than elsewhere.  If on the
> other hand this is referring to people travelling to the US for the
> conference, I heard a few horror stories earlier this year, but I have not
> seen evidence that there is widespread harassment of academics entering the
> US for a conference.  So I think the chance of encountering a problem is
> very low.  But I agree that this is a valid cause for concern, and I can
> understand if people are hesitant to travel to the US because of it.
>
> Others on the thread have suggested improving our virtual conference
> participation options so that US researchers can participate even if the
> event is held elsewhere.  I am all for improving virtual conference
> participation, but we had several years of experimentation with that during
> the pandemic, and in the end the verdict seemed to be that it didn't really
> work.  At least it is not a replacement for in-person participation.  But I
> think if people are motivated enough, and enough people do not want to
> travel to the US for conferences, then it would be a great idea to
> experiment with satellite meetings, also for climate reasons.
>
> In summary, given that a very significant portion of our community includes
> people working at US universities, I think that we should not abandon
> conferences in the US entirely.  We could, however, consider reducing the
> frequency with which conferences are located in the US (e.g. to no more
> than 1/2 or some smaller fraction of the time), as well as exploring
> complementary options like satellite meetings.
>
> Best wishes,
> Derek
>
> P.S. In response to Artem's question, I would not consider the discussion
> on this list to necessarily be representative of the "stance" of the PL
> community on this issue.  It may be worth gauging the stance of the
> research community, but that may be best done with post-conference surveys
> at some upcoming SIGPLAN conferences.
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2025 at 5:17 PM Artem Shinkarov <tema at pm.me> wrote:
>
> > [ The Types Forum,
> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list 
> > ]
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > It appears that the argument regarding being "trapped in" is diverting
> the
> > discussion from the intent of the original post: the toxic attitude of
> the
> > US towards research and researchers, which requires action from the
> > research community. Ban on conferences in the US could serve as a
> > meaningful statement or gesture that we ought to consider.
> >
> > The issue of being "trapped in" is indeed one of the drawbacks
> highlighted
> > in the original post. However, this situation is not unique to the US;
> > similar challenges arise in other countries as well. For instance,
> > individuals on visas in the UK may find themselves unable to travel to
> > Europe, the US, and beyond. As noted in previous discussions, we can
> > address this issue by ensuring adequate online participation and
> exploring
> > the possibility of satellite events. Nevertheless, the crucial question
> > remains: is the research community prepared to express its stance on this
> > matter, and what is the most effective way to do so?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Artem
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, September 23rd, 2025 at 1:36 PM, Niki Vazou <
> > nikivazou at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > [ The Types Forum,
> > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list    ]
> > >
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > I also agree that moving is getting more complicated (both for the
> > > geopolitical events and the environment...)
> > > So, maybe a good alternative would be, in parallel to the main event,
> to
> > > have satellite events. For example, when a conference happens in USA,
> to
> > > have participants gather in another country to attend/participate.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Niki
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 5:35 PM Julia Belyakova julbinb at gmail.com
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > [ The Types Forum,
> > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list 
> > > > ]
> > > >
> > > > I don't disagree that the US is not a welcome destination for many
> > people
> > > > right now.
> > > >
> > > > I did want to point out the existence of the trapped-in-the-US
> > > > international community because in my experience, a lot of people,
> > > > understandably, are not aware of this phenomenon.
> > > >
> > > > In general, there are many reasons why an individual cannot travel
> to a
> > > > particular location, be it the US or another country.
> > > >
> > > > To be constructive, I would like to amplify an alternative suggestion
> > > > discussed in Zulip, which is to have an explicit policy for
> presenting
> > the
> > > > paper at a different conference that is held in a more suitable
> > location
> > > > for the author. Similar to what SIGPLAN-track has been doing at
> SPLASH.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, it would require more coordination across the conferences
> > and an
> > > > additional logistics burden on organizers.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Kind regards, Julia
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://julbinb.github.io/__;!!IBzWLUs!WAX7xyBsdZT3oMFK0lm5dFmak5nvWszH_Tt-tl_8MyRugaEYzh3Sm-WminTMTReV3LLNlPUOJIjBk-3FDMWtDsPMfds$
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 12:27 AM Sanjiva Prasad sanjiva at cse.iitd.ac.in
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > So ia=s my son (for INS reasons) -- could not attend ECOOP or CAV
> > this
> > > > > year where he had best papers.
> > > > >
> > > > > But computer science is not a US monopoly (not even in ACM now,
> > though
> > > > > registered in the US).
> > > > > It costs Indians and Chinese and some others USD250 over the visa
> > costs
> > > > > just to enter the US.
> > > > > Am not saying that getting into Europe or India is easier, but US
> is
> > not
> > > > > a welcome destination for many right now.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 22/09/25 04:18, Julia Belyakova wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > [ The Types Forum,
> > > > > > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list    ]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand this position but just want to remind that there are
> > many
> > > > > > international students and professionals in the community who are
> > stuck
> > > > > > inside the US and cannot cross the border, even to go Canada.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I, for one, have been stuck in the US since 2020.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sanjiva Prasad
> > > > > Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> > > > > Indian Institute of Technology Delhi (IIT Delhi)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Niki Vazou
> >
>