[TYPES] ETAPS bars Russian researchers from attending

[Gabriel Scherer]

Dear list,

types-list moderator here: I have received a request to close this thread
for further discussion, for the reason that continued discussions can cause
pain to some of our colleagues. I have not made any decision yet, but I
understand the broad argument of benefits/costs ratio: the original
decision by ETAPS has been reversed, and we may be seeing diminishing
returns in continued discussions -- yet I admire the last post by Ross
Horne, http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/pipermail/types-list/2022/002432.html ,
which may also be an opening for related but different discussions,
possibly in different venues.
I will consult with past moderators. In any case, please carefully consider
whether any further post is really necessary for the discussion.


As noted previously by Jon Sterling (
http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/pipermail/types-list/2022/002423.html ), this
discussion has been the occasion for some of you to realize that the
moderation of types-list is in part an editorial process: it's not just
filtering obvious spam, sometimes messages are not forwarded for other
reasons (including: not adding enough to the discussion, or risking a
spiralling towards bad-quality discussions). I've received feedback that
people are not aware of this (and that this moderation style is not to
everyone's liking) -- thanks! I will edit the list description page to make
this clear, and discuss moderation approaches with past moderators.

There is a thread on the Types Zulip ( typ.zulipchat.com/ ) discussing
types-list moderation. Feel free to participate there, but I wish to avoid
long meta-discussions on the mailing-list itself. Many mailing-list users
react negatively to voluminous discussions, especially on topics that they
consider less appropriate or less useful. In general, Zulip makes it easier
for average users to tune out of conversations, and has an explicit
"miscellaneous" category that includes meta- discussions. (There is no
a-priori moderation of messages on Zulip.)


Finally, I wish to thank everyone for this discussion. This is a very
difficult topic, and it could have gone very badly. I'm sure we could have
done better, and we will need more time to discuss and reflect. Yet we were
able to collectively express ourselves, on a controversial topic, during a
very difficult time; an accomplishment.


Best, and with thoughts to the many people affected, directly or
indirectly, by this war.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 7:33 PM Neel Krishnaswami <
neelakantan.krishnaswami at gmail.com> wrote:

> [ The Types Forum, http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list
> ]
>
> The ETAPS website (
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etaps.org__;!!IBzWLUs!HUevd2N5Ms-2WYC1sMdH93ef4xxRy4BjZ9KD0I8SPwLGGpv-Rk7u_Emgl9qMMyLGK4ex90o0Cm0$
> ) has the following text on its
> front page:
>
> > The ETAPS association strongly condemns the war against Ukraine
> > launched by President Putin. It is an intolerable breach of
> > international law and a crime against humanity, unfolding in Europe
> > now. Therefore, until further notice, ETAPS 2022 cannot accept
> > registrations from affiliates of Russian research institutions or
> > companies.
>
> While I'm as opposed to illegal wars of aggression as anyone else, this
> feels like a serious mistake.
>
> There are many Russians (such as Jetbrains corporation) who have taken
> the serious personal risk of publically opposing the war, and barring
> them from our conferences due to their nationality feels wrong to me.
>
> It may well be that the financial sanctions regime means that
> registration payments cannot be accepted, but that is quite different
> from barring them personally.
>
> What do the rest of you think?
>
> Best,
> Neel
>