[TYPES] Could we temporarily stop having conferences in the US?

Tue Sep 23 12:44:45 EDT 2025

AFAIK, all the major SIGPLAN conferences already provide a remote option
for virtual participation.  It is possible that there have been exceptions,
but that is the post-Covid/PACMPL norm.

I'm not sure what you're proposing re: geographically distributing paper
presentations -- what is "vire"? -- but it sounds complicated.

Derek

On Tue, Sep 23, 2025 at 6:19 PM Peter Sewell <Peter.Sewell at cl.cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

> Straightforwardly actionable, and I think a no-brainer: we can ensure that
> remote participation is (imperfect though it is) uniformly available.
>
> Not completely straightforward logistically, but I imagine doable: we
> could allow authors to freely vire paper presentations among the SIGPLAN
> conferences, and ensure that those are geographically distributed.  There'd
> be some hit to the the character and critical-mass-of-related-people, but
> that might well be worthwhile.
>
> Peter
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Sept 2025 at 17:10, Derek Dreyer <dreyer at mpi-sws.org> wrote:
>
>> [ The Types Forum,
>> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list  ]
>>
>> Thanks for the lively discussion about this issue.  However, I'm afraid I
>> must disagree with the opinions posted so far that advocated for
>> (temporarily) abandoning conferences in the US.
>>
>> Of course, many people in our community are understandably upset because
>> of
>> the actions of the Trump administration and its effect on immigration and
>> research.  I, too, am very upset about it (to put it mildly).
>>
>> But it seems to me there are multiple different issues being conflated in
>> Gabriel's original post, and the proposed cure is worse than the disease.
>> In particular, he wrote: "It is pretty clear that the US are not a safe
>> place for universities right now, and also unpalatable-to-unsafe for
>> people
>> (especially foreigners) working in universities."
>>
>> Concerning the point that the US is not a safe place for universities: I
>> am
>> not exactly sure what he meant, but I assume he meant that universities
>> are
>> suffering under the major funding cuts and generally threatening behavior
>> of the Trump administration.  This is certainly true.  However, it is not
>> clear to me how holding an academic conference outside the US for a couple
>> years will sway Trump to do something different.  Furthermore, when
>> considering other conference locations, I do not recall it ever having
>> been
>> a priority to select locations based on whether the local government was
>> particularly supportive of science.  Even in its diminished state, the US
>> government will still be a major contributor to global research funding.
>>
>> Concerning the point that the US is "unpalatable-to-unsafe for people
>> (especially foreigners) working in universities", I again am not
>> completely
>> sure what this is referring to.  If this is referring to non-US citizens
>> working in universities in the US, who might have their visas revoked on
>> whatever proclamation Trump thinks up tomorrow, yes, this is really bad.
>> But as has already been noted by Julia and others, it is *much* easier for
>> those people to attend conferences in the US than elsewhere.  If on the
>> other hand this is referring to people travelling to the US for the
>> conference, I heard a few horror stories earlier this year, but I have not
>> seen evidence that there is widespread harassment of academics entering
>> the
>> US for a conference.  So I think the chance of encountering a problem is
>> very low.  But I agree that this is a valid cause for concern, and I can
>> understand if people are hesitant to travel to the US because of it.
>>
>> Others on the thread have suggested improving our virtual conference
>> participation options so that US researchers can participate even if the
>> event is held elsewhere.  I am all for improving virtual conference
>> participation, but we had several years of experimentation with that
>> during
>> the pandemic, and in the end the verdict seemed to be that it didn't
>> really
>> work.  At least it is not a replacement for in-person participation.  But
>> I
>> think if people are motivated enough, and enough people do not want to
>> travel to the US for conferences, then it would be a great idea to
>> experiment with satellite meetings, also for climate reasons.
>>
>> In summary, given that a very significant portion of our community
>> includes
>> people working at US universities, I think that we should not abandon
>> conferences in the US entirely.  We could, however, consider reducing the
>> frequency with which conferences are located in the US (e.g. to no more
>> than 1/2 or some smaller fraction of the time), as well as exploring
>> complementary options like satellite meetings.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Derek
>>
>> P.S. In response to Artem's question, I would not consider the discussion
>> on this list to necessarily be representative of the "stance" of the PL
>> community on this issue.  It may be worth gauging the stance of the
>> research community, but that may be best done with post-conference surveys
>> at some upcoming SIGPLAN conferences.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2025 at 5:17 PM Artem Shinkarov <tema at pm.me> wrote:
>>
>> > [ The Types Forum,
>> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list 
>> > ]
>> >
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > It appears that the argument regarding being "trapped in" is diverting
>> the
>> > discussion from the intent of the original post: the toxic attitude of
>> the
>> > US towards research and researchers, which requires action from the
>> > research community. Ban on conferences in the US could serve as a
>> > meaningful statement or gesture that we ought to consider.
>> >
>> > The issue of being "trapped in" is indeed one of the drawbacks
>> highlighted
>> > in the original post. However, this situation is not unique to the US;
>> > similar challenges arise in other countries as well. For instance,
>> > individuals on visas in the UK may find themselves unable to travel to
>> > Europe, the US, and beyond. As noted in previous discussions, we can
>> > address this issue by ensuring adequate online participation and
>> exploring
>> > the possibility of satellite events. Nevertheless, the crucial question
>> > remains: is the research community prepared to express its stance on
>> this
>> > matter, and what is the most effective way to do so?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Artem
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, September 23rd, 2025 at 1:36 PM, Niki Vazou <
>> > nikivazou at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [ The Types Forum,
>> > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list    ]
>> > >
>> > > Hey,
>> > >
>> > > I also agree that moving is getting more complicated (both for the
>> > > geopolitical events and the environment...)
>> > > So, maybe a good alternative would be, in parallel to the main event,
>> to
>> > > have satellite events. For example, when a conference happens in USA,
>> to
>> > > have participants gather in another country to attend/participate.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Niki
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 5:35 PM Julia Belyakova julbinb at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > [ The Types Forum,
>> > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list 
>> > > > ]
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't disagree that the US is not a welcome destination for many
>> > people
>> > > > right now.
>> > > >
>> > > > I did want to point out the existence of the trapped-in-the-US
>> > > > international community because in my experience, a lot of people,
>> > > > understandably, are not aware of this phenomenon.
>> > > >
>> > > > In general, there are many reasons why an individual cannot travel
>> to a
>> > > > particular location, be it the US or another country.
>> > > >
>> > > > To be constructive, I would like to amplify an alternative
>> suggestion
>> > > > discussed in Zulip, which is to have an explicit policy for
>> presenting
>> > the
>> > > > paper at a different conference that is held in a more suitable
>> > location
>> > > > for the author. Similar to what SIGPLAN-track has been doing at
>> SPLASH.
>> > > >
>> > > > Of course, it would require more coordination across the conferences
>> > and an
>> > > > additional logistics burden on organizers.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Kind regards, Julia
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://julbinb.github.io/__;!!IBzWLUs!WAX7xyBsdZT3oMFK0lm5dFmak5nvWszH_Tt-tl_8MyRugaEYzh3Sm-WminTMTReV3LLNlPUOJIjBk-3FDMWtDsPMfds$
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 12:27 AM Sanjiva Prasad
>> sanjiva at cse.iitd.ac.in
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > So ia=s my son (for INS reasons) -- could not attend ECOOP or CAV
>> > this
>> > > > > year where he had best papers.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But computer science is not a US monopoly (not even in ACM now,
>> > though
>> > > > > registered in the US).
>> > > > > It costs Indians and Chinese and some others USD250 over the visa
>> > costs
>> > > > > just to enter the US.
>> > > > > Am not saying that getting into Europe or India is easier, but US
>> is
>> > not
>> > > > > a welcome destination for many right now.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 22/09/25 04:18, Julia Belyakova wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > [ The Types Forum,
>> > > > > > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list    ]
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I understand this position but just want to remind that there
>> are
>> > many
>> > > > > > international students and professionals in the community who
>> are
>> > stuck
>> > > > > > inside the US and cannot cross the border, even to go Canada.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I, for one, have been stuck in the US since 2020.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Sanjiva Prasad
>> > > > > Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering
>> > > > > Indian Institute of Technology Delhi (IIT Delhi)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Niki Vazou
>> >
>>
>